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My
Last Bellagio Trip and Other Ramblings
By
Daniel Negreanu
(posted
on RGP 9/18/02)
(To
read the complete thread, click
here)
Having
been on the road for a while, and then playing at the HOF last week,
I haven't played much side action lately. So, the other night I went
to the Bellagio to see what was going on. There was a 300-600 2-7
triple draw and Omaha H/L game going, which suited me just fine. A
few of the players in the game didn't really understand the fundamentals
of triple draw, so despite there not being a 'sucker' in the game,
I deemed it to be a favourable spot for me. I got off to a decent
start in the Omaha H/L, but then ran unlucky in the triple draw, which
is very costly in comparison. Nonetheless, I was very pleased with
my play during the session, and quit $18,000 loser at 3am, as I said
I would. None of that is the point of my post though. After not playing
at the Bellagio for quite some time, what amazed me most, was the
childish conversation at the table. Nothing had changed.
The minute one person leaves
the table, the others all chime in with: Did you see how bad he played
that hand? He's terrible at triple draw!" "How could he
call on the turn?
Then
that player, let's call him Abe comes back to the table. Abe is a
pro too, and thinks he's a favorite in the game. Now it's time for
"Player B" (who we'll call BOB) to go for a smoke:
ABE:
Oh my God, how bad does Bob play, he's the worst I've ever seen? Calling
two bets and drawing two cards?"
CARL: I know. Abe,
when he comes back, tell him we'll play straight Omaha and I'll pay
the time.
(I
can't tell you how many times I've heard "let's play straight
Omaha and I'll pay the time". My God., can they think of nothing
more original?) Bob comes back.
DON: Hey Bob, whaddya
say we play straight Omaha, I'll pay the time, HA HA HA
BOB: With all you donkeys in the
game, let's play straight triple draw, and I'll pay the time, and
give y'all 10% back!
This
goes on an on for the duration of the night, with each player volunteering
to pay the time, and of course it never happens.EARL
leaves the table to go to the bathroom.
CARL:
Where does EARL get his money? He plays so bad it's scary.
ABE: Don't worry he'll be broke in a week.
(translation: let's hope so, that way we can all feel better about
ourselves.)
Then,
we move into a new phase of conversation, the head up games that never
take place:
EARL:
Wow, nice call on the turn buddy, you play here everyday?
FRANK: I do as long as you are in town?
EARL: Well geez, there is a free table over there, why don't we play
some head-up?
FRANK: Get a dealer.
EARL: Sweet, there is a God! Ooh baby looks like Christmas came early
this year.
Hey
Bob, do me a favour, call my wife and let her know I won't be home
for a while. I figure, shouldn't take me longer that 6 hours to break
this donkey... So what games you wanna play?
FRANK:
Let's play HOSE, that's a fair game.
EARL: No. That's no good. How about Omaha H/L and Hi-Lo regular.
FRANK: Why don't we just play some real poker?
EARL: OK, I'll tell you what then. How about we play triple draw,
and hi-lo regular?
FRANK: No good, put the hold'em in there at least.
EARL: Let's see. Ok, I got it. Why don't we play Hi-lo regular, triple
draw, and Omaha H/L?
Earl is a
master at this. He only wants to play one of these three games, but
has a way of making the mix sound different, by starting with a different
game. It's amazing how often it works.
FRANK: All right, fine. We'll
play your dumb games. As bad as you play it wouldn't matter if we
was playin' "Earl wins". OK, what limit you wanna play?
EARL:How about 500-1000 to start?
FRANK: Hell, I don't wanna play no cheap poker. Don't waste my time,
1000-200 minimum.
This is Frank's
way out of playing. He knows Earl won't play that high
I've heard virtually these same
conversations for years now. Mind you, it's an improvement over what
I used to hear:
(Players hand flips up accidentally):
Wow, how tight is this guy! Folding the 9-4 offsuit. HAHAHA, LOL,
LOL, LOL. You'd think that the people saying this would realize that
it's not that funny after the 7th time!
In closing, I will say that I
find the table chatter most annoying at Bellagio, moreso than the
tournaments, and the LA cash games. It's not 'the Bellagio" of
course. It's the regulars in the games there, that are living in a
box. The same routines, same gibberish...over, and over again.
Some
Observations
By Rebekah Sindoris
(posted on RGP 9/17/02)
(To read the complete thread, click
here)
Having
been around the poker circuit for the last 6 months, and discussing
lives, philosophies, and meeting such an interesting and dynamic group
of people, I hope that this not-so-brief diatribe will be interesting
to many of you. It seems somehow appropriate to post here, so I will.
There's been a little questioning about Allen Cunningham's whereabouts,
and why he might choose to go back to school. As a person who is following
her dream and finding it incredibly fulfilling on a daily basis, despite
my financial difficulties, at times, I am amazed that one would question
this, particularly if you know Allen at all.
Through my filmmaking observations on the poker circuit, I have grown
to understand the appeal of the game, and am even tempted to play some
myself, as I have always been a games person. But, I vow already not
to give up the passion I've been so lucky to have found. Poker seems
to clearly be an "obsession" for many. Anything that causes
one to throw oneself into it completely and fully (i.e. reading RGP
on a daily basis, posting and posting and posting some more, reading
many many poker books, playing online regularly and hitting the casinos
as often as possible) at the expense of other hobbies and even work,
qualifies as an obsession. But, there's a fine line between obsession
and passion. And if your obsession isn't harmful to yourself or others
around you, then maybe it is your "passion." So what happens
when you get tired of it?
Improving requires practice and study...as in poker, as in sports, as
in business, as in life. When you reach a place where you are a champion,
a winner, a successful businessperson, then how much will you enjoy
it still? That depends on the person. Some forever, some not. Maybe
then you begin to question the lifestyle surrounding the chosen passion/obsession.
This ties directly into the thread about poker players having a difficult
time finding girlfriends. Again, how much time you devote to your obsession/passion,
and the lifestyle you follow because of it is clearly and directly related
to whether or not you can "settle down" or find a mate who
can live the obsession too. Sometimes what seems right is not right
for right now, but that doesn't mean it is never right for you.
Everything in life is timing.
They are all choices.
I believe the only thing truly beyond our control is what that obsession
and passion is. Then, how you choose to follow it, accept it, and roll
with it, is different for everybody. There is no right and wrong - but
there is what makes a person happiest. If you can figure that out, for
the present, then you are probably doing okay (and arguably better than
most - that's for you bubbles ;).
If playing poker really "turns you on" and it is not at the
expense of other important things in your life, then by all means, do
it, at least until this is not the case.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
These are my examples of some poker players and how they handle it in
their lives (these are only my personal observations and I hope the
people I mention do not mind):
-Daniel Negreanu - I truly believe he loves to live for poker. Yes,
Daniel does seek a family life, ultimately, and has other interests.
And, directly related to age, now at 28, he seems to be beginning to
settle down just a little bit more. But, he doesn't tire or bore of
playing poker regularly, or RGP questions. In fact, he really does seem
to light up, most of the time, when doing just about anything poker
related. He's happy this way - fantastic. When the time comes, he will
do the other things in his heart, no doubt - he cannot live any other
way.
-Diego Cordovez - entrepreneur and poker player. This man has not given
up his business ventures and thrives by them. Although he plays poker
often, and wins a lot, he goes home to his life in Palo Alto and does
other things. When he does not think he'll attain maximum enjoyment
from a tournament, he chooses not to go. Sounds fairly healthy to me.
And therefore, he's happy and pleasant when he does play. The balance
seems to work very well for him.
-Jennifer Harman - Here's a woman that appears to truly love poker.
Her eyes light up when she talks about it on camera. She really looks
happy that this is her life, and has clearly done well for herself.
How can the link be an accident. And, Jennifer is happily married and
does want to create a family life for herself, and will probably achieve
success at that too.
-Antonio Esfandiari - otherwise known as the young magaician. Antonio
is a newer player, and has been successful on a smaller scale...but
this young man definitely definitely has other ambitions and passions
too. In fact, I have watched Antonio truly tire of playing poker, and
really question going back to school (at age 23, not a bad idea) and
pursuing other avenues. He has grand dreams, of which magic is definitely
a part, and he has many friends outside the poker world, and a very
healthy relationship with a fantastic girlfriend. But, in his youth,
I can see him struggling with the poker lifestyle, yet not prepared
to give it up. He loves winning, and likes the "freedom" the
lifestyle brings right now.
Jeff "Happy" Shulman - Whenever I talk to Jeff about his career,
he always mentions that he does have a job (Cardplayer) and he does
go to work in the morning (I know, I've actually called there before
10am).
The Unibomber - Phil Laak recently said to myself and another - "What
was I thinking about the girl thing?" This is a man who realizes
that his obsession for poker (and games in general) is bigger than himself.
He is the guy who's up all night whenever and wherever there is a good
game, no matter what. Some might consider him a degenerate. Who cares.
He is not a champion tournament player, nor does he aim to be. But I've
watched him light up a room. His energy is so big, and he lives for
it, at least right now. It is to his credit that he understands that
any relationship would be difficult while he's leading the lifestyle
that he currently enjoys. It's his decision.
Dutch - This is a kid who lives and breathes poker. His enthusiasm for
the game is amazing. And, he was clearly and admittedly influenced by
Rounders. Some people worry about a kid like Dutch - who's so completely
obsessed with the game. But, Dutch has a great head on his shoulders,
and he's so good-natured. At 21, and with no "real" responsibilities,
I think it's okay to be so enamoured with the game, as long as it serves
his life and personal happiness well. This kid is also very smart, and
has other ambitions. He truly has a chance to influence the world and
has such an amazingly idealistic and positive outlook on the future,
that (personally) I truly hope he doesn't make poker his full-time thing.
I believe he can really affect the world for the better - in a major
way - if that is an important value for him.
Erik Seidel - As a fairly reserved and quiet guy, I find Erik hard to
read. But, he is always so pleasant to everyone, and seems to have a
positive energy about him. Of course, Erik has been around as a champion
in poker for a while, and before that, was known well from the NY backgammon
scene. He has a family and a stable home in Las Vegas. It seems to work
for him.
A quick story:
Recently I introduced Erik to Dutch. Dutch is still a little star-struck
in the poker world and was truly enthused to meet Erik. In turn, I think
Erik really enjoyed meeting Dutch. Watching Dutch's enthusiasm for the
game made Erik smile. It's one generation sharing appreciation with
another generation for something they both understand the shared passion.
-
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
These are all fairly positive examples of
people who play poker and do seem to enjoy their lives and the poker
involvement. But, of course there are many players who are miserable,
or not as happy as they could be anymore. I hope these players recognize
it. And I hope the passionate poker players also find other interests
and ways to influence this world for the better (but those are my personal
morals). The only criticism I used to have of poker as a lifestyle is
that it doesn't "create" anything or "add something"
to the world. It might be looked upon as a completely selfish endeavor.
But, it doesn't have to be. I do hope that these people, who I believe
are so interesting and smart and capable, do something for the world
that is outside themselves.
I commend Allen for going back to school. And I'm pretty sure it's not
just for a "degree" but more for personal accomplishment and
for self-expansion. I also think it's not going to be easy for him,
or for anyone who's lived a lifestyle where they don't have to answer
to anybody. This must be the hardest thing for a poker player.
I have heard, time and time again, from players that they think they
are lazy. I never found them lazy at all - they put in many hours, read,
study, and it takes an immense amount of concentration. Is it the "freedom?"
Interesting concept to question. Without getting into a discussion (or
monologue) about capitalism and its relative effects on the definition
of freedom, it's interesting to question this concept. Is the grind
freedom? I think it is the not having to answer to any authority that
poker players truly appreciate. I also think that's why it will be difficult
for any player, who has truly had success in poker, to get into any
situation where he does have to answer to someone, and not always do
what he wants (i.e. school).
But, like any major accomplishment in life, there is sacrifice. And
if one can see beyond the struggle, and appreciate and anticipate the
future achievement and happiness that comes from sacrifice, then he'll
do it, and be glad he did.
People need to trust their instincts more - as poker players well know.
I also believe there is some kind of artist soul in everyone - whether
it's public or private - and when people find it, they are naturally
happier (playing music, drawing, painting, filmmaking, singing, whatever
it is for you). We do it as kids, why not as adults?
There are many similarities between poker players and filmmakers. We
also try to live as our own boss.
On a final note, I can only speak from my own experience and personal
happiness. I was a politics major in college, and planned on being U.S.
Supreme Court Chief Justice when I grew up (why not dream big). I eat,
read, drank and slept law...loved it, truly did. When I graduated, I
went to work for the ABA and planned on Law School. Then, upon my first
job, I was miserable. I didn't understand all the why's then, only knew
it didn't "feel" right. So I quit (which is one of the hardest
but best things I've ever done). Sometimes I felt like a failure, and
I had no idea what to do. So I tried things - had a billion jobs, and
somehow landed on a film, for free, working my ass off, and even almost
getting fired (yes, for free!). And then I fell in love with the process,
and started feeling my way through it - didn't know what to do in it,
but knew I was in the right place. I ultimately tried to combine both
film and law, years later, but dropped out of law school. That's when
I let go of all the personal demons I didn't realize I had (wanting
intellectual acknowledgement and prestige - having 6 degrees after my
name - growing up on the East Coast in a well-educated family will do
that to a girl). I completely and fully devoted myself to a career as
a starving artist - make it or break it - no matter what. And I haven't
looked back nor regretted the decision one moment yet.
My father recently asked me what my backup plan is.
Backup plan???!!!!
This is it, baby. How can there be any other way?
How
do you find a spouse who accepts a poker player?:
One Woman's Perspective
By Rebekah Sindoris
(posted on RGP 8/18/02)
(To read the complete thread, click
here)
This question was recently posted on Rec.Gambling.Poker:
How
do you find a spouse who accepts a poker player?
Question, not a riddle. Where can i find her?
Better vegas where a pro gambler is an "acceptable" regular
person
or some type of casino employee?
Your feed back please....
The
post started an interesting thread about the difficulties in finding
a relationship while living the impulsive and "irregular"
unique lifestyle of a poker player. Here is my response on the issue:
My
dear friend Rebecca and I (we go by "double-trouble" in some
circles) have been hanging amongst a group of young poker players (some
professional and some "hobbyists") for the last six months
and have developed many a minor crush (you know who you are!). Of course,
the excuse of the film is what got us into this mess, but in all seriousness,
I personally feel by meeting this interesting group of people I have
made some friends for life already. Goodness knows she's had some fun
too. That is not what we expected. And, I imagine, that would not be
what most women, or most people would expect.
Hee hee...maybe more women will watch the movie and accept it.
Yes, there are still a lot of stigmas and misconceptions about what
"kind" of people play poker. That's part of what we're tackling
in the film - showcasing the people who play and what they are really
like. I imagine the stigma is the first red flag for most women.
Poker is sexy. It just is...a game based on temptation. That should
be an advantage. If you play poker and play responsibly and well, and
leave time in your lives for family and other things, than I don't see
why it should be a hinderance.
Gambling away your life's saving's, and your family's is not sexy. Being
obsessive about spending every waking moment doing something that's
very basis is taking someone's money is not sexy. Anything obsessive
that takes you over and leaves little time for anything else is never
going to make a happy relationship...especially if you're nonstop on
the road. Whether that's poker, drugs, a career as an attorney in NYC
or something of the like, it's a similar result.
I should know...it's similar to what I do as a filmmaker.
There are both kinds of people who play poker. Which are you?
Bottom Line is this: It's never easy finding your "soul-mate,"
or even a generally happy and positive relationship for that matter.
We women have just as many problems with it, no matter what we do for
a living.
Balance.
Be charming, confident, treat people well, don't pretend you're someone
you're not, and look for those qualities in someone else...no magic
formula.
I really don't think poker is the problem...it's how you handle a lifestyle
involving your passion...therein lies the answer.
And that's my two-cents!
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more information on Rovin' Gamblers,
email us at
Postmaster@RovinGamblers.com.
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